Riku's morality is largely selfish and based around the people he wants to protect. The reason why I have made him go around and meet a ton of people and instead favor a choice few because that's what he does. He has people he wants to protect and he puts them all on equal level! The issue is that because he has these people he wants to protect, sometimes he forgets there are other people, too.
In a morality argument, this would automatically put points against him in Suzaku's eyes. Suzaku believes he's someone who works for the greater good and considers everyone. If he and Riku were to argue, Riku would be forced to admit that Suzaku's approach is better. However, Riku isn't someone who believes hurting someone is a necessary requirement and he's also quick to feel guilt. Suzaku will feel guilt but feel right at the same time; Riku ... basically is incapable of that. If he got his memories in a different order, maybe, but I doubt it. Even when he THOUGHT HE WAS RIGHT throughout all of Kingdom Hearts, it was largely because Kairi was missing her heart and he was worried and from what he could see, Sora wasn't doing a whole lot about it!
... Suzaku, on the other hand, just is a self-righteous douchebag. He's arrogant and selfish and so forth. If they both had memories, Riku would win purely by being less of a douchebag, but only to onlookers. Between the two of them, Suzaku's utilitarian stance would end up making Riku look like a douche. Though it would be the most guilt-filled morality argument ever.
Does Pride realize that he's working largely FOR SOMEONE in his memories? Or that he's inclined toward that?
His two Kevin memories are very heavily slanted that way. Do This for Someone. And in the memory where he shanks Lotti he distinctly thinks about Sharon so he has . . . an idea. In the most recent memory though there's absolutely no outside influence/thoughts so.
Which castmates from Geass do you want most? And what starting memory do you think would make them most interesting to play off of Shield?
I actually want Kallen and Gino the most! I'll say I'm particular about Lelouch because I intended to app Suzaku to Zazzle's Lelouch in Sabra, but then apps closed. (In hindsight, putting Suzaku into a game where he has a role designed for him is better anyway.) The two of us have balanced ideas of how their relationship is meant to work, and it's one of those tricky ones where the players have to see eye to eye! So, mostly Kallen and Gino. Anyone from the Student Council or even Nunnally might be fascinating, especially since Nunnally would be able to see and walk? But I don't know how interesting they would be in Aather.
Anything Gino would get about Suzaku would be good, up to episode eighteen of R2. There's a point where Suzaku and him just STOP seeing eye to eye. But there's a point where all of his memories about Suzaku would be "man, I wish he was happier! Like in those photos I saw!" But it would be weird because Shield isn't UNHAPPY, he's just ... apparently not very sane about his actions, which would be confused with Gino's memories.
Kallen, however, would see Suzaku as this failure to a nation, but a nice, normal guy? Up to episode ... seventeen? Eighteen? Whenever the reveal is that he's the pilot of Lancelot. But there's a point where she would know that he's the one piloting the Knightmare fucking things up. But prior to that, she wouldn't have any bitterness and resentment. If she got the memory of him asking her to join his side, she'd start to wonder what his motivations are in Aather. He's doing all this even without those shitty actions in the past! WHY IS THAT. Kallen does everything because of motivations that have led her to that point. She is someone who craves for a normal life. Suzaku isn't, so it'd be a fascinating contrast.
Do you think Pride could develop that kind of loyalty toward someone in Aather?
Hmmmmmm, yes and no. In some ways he's already thrown his lot in with Sugata. But the kind of loyalty he has for the people he does in canon is something that he had years to build. On the other hand, he was really thrown off balance in Aather, didn't have any of his skills or memories and in general was just set waaaay farther back then he ever was in canon. So his base is different. How much deeper the loyalty goes will mostly depend on Sugata's actions as Break only gets . . . well, better at keeping people at a distance. Break also loev sideways loyalty so who knooowwwssss.
Hahaha, their dynamic is actually pretty terrible.
Their first meeting has Riku being a giant dick. He tells her she's fake and realizes afterward that she's a replica. And what she's for! The thing is, Riku's a "well, I'll do what needs to be done" kind of character, but he feels pretty terrible while he's doing it. But someone has to. And the unfortunate part is that Xion is someone who is obstructing what needs to be done! Sora needs to come back, and Xion is stealing his memories and if she joins up with Roxas, things will be fucked.
The thing is, there's this largely guilt-trippy scene where Riku explains to her that she doesn't have a right to exist, and he makes it clear that he feels bad. He does, but at the same time, he's a big enough douche. They eventually become allies, though, because Xion and Riku both love guilt, and she's willing to give up her sense of self and everything because—well, in the long run, she thinks the memories are just as important, and she wasn't supposed to exist. It's her who pushes Riku to hurt Roxas and drag him back for the simulation town, because Roxas doesn't understand giving up a sense of self. But ... she only gets there because Riku makes her feel bad, but he also feels responsibility to her. A lot of this is because he screwed her over.
Basically, though, the core of it is that she's the biggest obstruction to Sora coming back. So while some part of him understands her loyalty to her friends (really, really understands), he has to enforce the "you shouldn't exist." HOWEVER, this will be different in Aather, because Riku got his "... Nobodies aren't that bad sometimes" memory back first, so when he gets Xion stuff back, it will be triiiiicky.
How do you think Mukuro will come to perceive Ahiru when she gets her humanform back?
I am notttt suurrree. It probably depends on how much and what she says to him. It could go either way since he could just decide to cut it right there and be like well not you're not my duck so I don't care about you at all. Or it could remain :|a
He's not as loyal to them as I thought he'd be! The issue is that Riku really, really loves Shinji, but the rest of them ... not as much! He doesn't know what to make of Sion, Aeris, or Katou, and he deeply respects Sanzo. A part of him is too guilty to really talk to Sanzo about his memories after what happened, though. So, his biggest loyalty spots go for Shinji and Sanzo, but his BIGGER loyalty goes outside the team, which is prooooobably not how it's supposed to work.
If you allowed thirds and could make me app anyone, who would it be?
GOSH I AM REALLY NOT SURE because one of the nice things about amnesia games is that he 'blank slate' base to thread with people is great. I think one of the girls you play would be interesting, just because I like them. But I'm pretty wary of this question for amnesia games too because it's so variable as 'what will work', esp with team dynamics and stuff. Like, I really like playing off of your Sam in Camp, but I am not sure how that would work in Aather, etc.
Do you have a list of possible thirds you're considering? :O I know you had one on plurk, but has it changed since thennnn
Yeah, I tried Sam briefly in Sabra and it didn't work! But Aather is also a very different feel, so it might work differently here?
Head, Kamui, Max, Connor, Vincent, Oz (strangely, I don't know if I could pull him off, but he would be a fascinating contrast), Bunshichi. Mostly I want someone who would contrast well with my two.
They all have their problems. Kait's super abrasive!1 Sirkka... idk if I could play but I would want to. lolololheadlololol. Cissnei I STILL NEED THE LAST BITS OF BC TRANSLATED FANDOM I HATE YOU. And Dietrich I could do as a knight because I could let his first skill be "following orders/obedience" HA. orz. But idk I am super content with my two at the moment.
I am actually happy with all the non-trauma games we've had. I'd like there to be spaced out trauma so people could recover, since I really, really love the feel of Aather and how people's dynamics really influence how the game goes rather than the NPCs making it bad. But if the NPCs fuck with them, they'll know it's the NPCs and it won't break bonds. I hope there's a kissing one I can play in.
Which is bizarre for me, I realize, but my tastes as a role-player have changed.
Is it intentional that what the personae want from the knights isn't entirely set in stone, thus lending them independence? I'm really fascinated by your world building.
Yup! I enjoy the different demands that we can place on the knights -- and the amount of "choice" that is given is really important to me! So you can be Sei-chan and not give food, or you can be Suzaku and BE JUSTICE or you can be Mithos and be ALL THE HEALING, etc.
Eventually I hope to be able to do something with this and knights and Choice that the players will enjoy :3c but yesss. The system is made to be that way for a reason.
What area/addition to the world map would you like to see most?
I AM REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THE BLACK STONES AREA and I have a feeling that's going to mean SERIOUS SHIT when it's unlocked.
Are you worried about running out of things to be unlocked? Or is that eventually meant to happen? OR AM I ASKING A QUESTION I CAN'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO
Unlocks are actually super easy. THERE ARE SOME THINGS PLANNED for larger unlocks and uhh I don't want to say 'final unlocks' but I mean in terms of 'wow this forest is now really crowded' unlocks! But they are mostly meant to give people more things to play with, atm |D
So, a herd of rampaging cannibal goats runs through Aather and mauls half the population. What do Riku and Suzaku do?
Riku and Suzaku's actions would be similar! They would be going around helping everyone except "everyone" for Riku means "the people he gives a crap about, and if he can, the people THEY care about, since they asked," while Suzaku literally would be trying to help everyone and would probably go after the goats themselves. Riku would take a surprisingly passive role in trying to defend his friends specifically and ensuring that they are seen to safety/not being broken.
Stupidly, Riku wishes for power! Not power that he would use to hurt his friends, but to protect them. He has a weapon, but he's still shoddy at using it, so he feels pretty helpless. It sucks because he started off all I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT IF I TRY and quickly realized that noooo, that isn't possible. Shit.
Suzaku wants the personae to stop bringing in people who aren't interested in saving the world!
I tend to either be a KYA INTERACTION KYA SHIPPER or a not . . . shipper in general. So the answer is both YESSS and noooooooooo.
Like, I ship Sugata and Souya but not in a sexytiems way. I just enjoy it when Souya feels topped and tsundere.
On the same token I love Suzaku and Sei-chan's interactions and I guess it's more traditional ship in that sense but it isn't like I am sitting here rooting for sex either...
It is a very negative relationship. Suzaku believes he can possibly control and keep Seishirou in line by holding his attention, and (as far as I know), Seishirou is willing to "humor" him—by which I mean he's willing to talk to Suzaku. Most of it is that Suzaku really doesn't trust Seishirou's intentions. It's obvious that what he finds interesting or fascinating can prove incredibly detrimental. He doesn't understand how anyone can think that way.
Which is where the other part comes in. Or one of the other parts. Mostly, Suzaku and Seishirou work so differently. Suzaku is self-righteous and dickish but inherently good. Seishirou is a giant bag of dicks, but he's ... not. They both have incredibly domineering personalities. As a result, Seishirou ends up putting Suzaku in his place, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. Suzaku is like the great wall of China when it comes to his stubbornness.
That said: He thinks it might be useful to try and track a pattern to Seishirou's thinking! (Hint: He'll never be able to.) And some part of him is so flustered and confused by Seishirou that he doesn't altogether get it. He wants to be right, but it's impossible to be right with someone who doesn't seem to care; that someone seems to like to let Suzaku think he's right, no matter what. It's frustrating! Because he wants to show he's actually right! Which is where an interesting balance of maturity comes into the mix.
But most of all, he just doesn't like him, but he finds him interesting—which is incredibly hypocritical and boy is he aware of it—because he thinks differently. But also, he is physically attracted to him! In a weird ... competitive way, where he doesn't like ending up on the receiving end of things. Some part of him enjoys the challenge and the minor slipping into flirting, because it's something where he thinks he can get an edge. (Hint: He never does.) It's just also ... incredibly unhealthy, because as much as he finds him fascinating, he also wants to hurt him. He's able to guess a portion of how dangerous Seishirou can be. He doesn't know entirely, though.
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Date: 2011-02-22 03:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-22 04:02 pm (UTC)Riku's morality is largely selfish and based around the people he wants to protect. The reason why I have made him go around and meet a ton of people and instead favor a choice few because that's what he does. He has people he wants to protect and he puts them all on equal level! The issue is that because he has these people he wants to protect, sometimes he forgets there are other people, too.
In a morality argument, this would automatically put points against him in Suzaku's eyes. Suzaku believes he's someone who works for the greater good and considers everyone. If he and Riku were to argue, Riku would be forced to admit that Suzaku's approach is better. However, Riku isn't someone who believes hurting someone is a necessary requirement and he's also quick to feel guilt. Suzaku will feel guilt but feel right at the same time; Riku ... basically is incapable of that. If he got his memories in a different order, maybe, but I doubt it. Even when he THOUGHT HE WAS RIGHT throughout all of Kingdom Hearts, it was largely because Kairi was missing her heart and he was worried and from what he could see, Sora wasn't doing a whole lot about it!
... Suzaku, on the other hand, just is a self-righteous douchebag. He's arrogant and selfish and so forth. If they both had memories, Riku would win purely by being less of a douchebag, but only to onlookers. Between the two of them, Suzaku's utilitarian stance would end up making Riku look like a douche. Though it would be the most guilt-filled morality argument ever.
Does Pride realize that he's working largely FOR SOMEONE in his memories? Or that he's inclined toward that?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:07 pm (UTC)Which castmates from Geass do you want most? And what starting memory do you think would make them most interesting to play off of Shield?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:15 pm (UTC)Anything Gino would get about Suzaku would be good, up to episode eighteen of R2. There's a point where Suzaku and him just STOP seeing eye to eye. But there's a point where all of his memories about Suzaku would be "man, I wish he was happier! Like in those photos I saw!" But it would be weird because Shield isn't UNHAPPY, he's just ... apparently not very sane about his actions, which would be confused with Gino's memories.
Kallen, however, would see Suzaku as this failure to a nation, but a nice, normal guy? Up to episode ... seventeen? Eighteen? Whenever the reveal is that he's the pilot of Lancelot. But there's a point where she would know that he's the one piloting the Knightmare fucking things up. But prior to that, she wouldn't have any bitterness and resentment. If she got the memory of him asking her to join his side, she'd start to wonder what his motivations are in Aather. He's doing all this even without those shitty actions in the past! WHY IS THAT. Kallen does everything because of motivations that have led her to that point. She is someone who craves for a normal life. Suzaku isn't, so it'd be a fascinating contrast.
Do you think Pride could develop that kind of loyalty toward someone in Aather?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:20 pm (UTC)Hmmmmmm, yes and no. In some ways he's already thrown his lot in with Sugata. But the kind of loyalty he has for the people he does in canon is something that he had years to build. On the other hand, he was really thrown off balance in Aather, didn't have any of his skills or memories and in general was just set waaaay farther back then he ever was in canon. So his base is different. How much deeper the loyalty goes will mostly depend on Sugata's actions as Break only gets . . . well, better at keeping people at a distance. Break also loev sideways loyalty so who knooowwwssss.
What kind of dynamic do Riku and Xion have in KH?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:33 pm (UTC)Their first meeting has Riku being a giant dick. He tells her she's fake and realizes afterward that she's a replica. And what she's for! The thing is, Riku's a "well, I'll do what needs to be done" kind of character, but he feels pretty terrible while he's doing it. But someone has to. And the unfortunate part is that Xion is someone who is obstructing what needs to be done! Sora needs to come back, and Xion is stealing his memories and if she joins up with Roxas, things will be fucked.
The thing is, there's this largely guilt-trippy scene where Riku explains to her that she doesn't have a right to exist, and he makes it clear that he feels bad. He does, but at the same time, he's a big enough douche. They eventually become allies, though, because Xion and Riku both love guilt, and she's willing to give up her sense of self and everything because—well, in the long run, she thinks the memories are just as important, and she wasn't supposed to exist. It's her who pushes Riku to hurt Roxas and drag him back for the simulation town, because Roxas doesn't understand giving up a sense of self. But ... she only gets there because Riku makes her feel bad, but he also feels responsibility to her. A lot of this is because he screwed her over.
Basically, though, the core of it is that she's the biggest obstruction to Sora coming back. So while some part of him understands her loyalty to her friends (really, really understands), he has to enforce the "you shouldn't exist." HOWEVER, this will be different in Aather, because Riku got his "... Nobodies aren't that bad sometimes" memory back first, so when he gets Xion stuff back, it will be triiiiicky.
How do you think Mukuro will come to perceive Ahiru when she gets her humanform back?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:38 pm (UTC)How does Riku view Turquoise?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:44 pm (UTC)If you allowed thirds and could make me app anyone, who would it be?
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:49 pm (UTC)Do you have a list of possible thirds you're considering? :O I know you had one on plurk, but has it changed since thennnn
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Date: 2011-02-22 04:53 pm (UTC)Head, Kamui, Max, Connor, Vincent, Oz (strangely, I don't know if I could pull him off, but he would be a fascinating contrast), Bunshichi. Mostly I want someone who would contrast well with my two.
What about you?
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:02 pm (UTC)They all have their problems. Kait's super abrasive!1 Sirkka... idk if I could play but I would want to. lolololheadlololol. Cissnei I STILL NEED THE LAST BITS OF BC TRANSLATED FANDOM I HATE YOU. And Dietrich I could do as a knight because I could let his first skill be "following orders/obedience" HA. orz. But idk I am super content with my two at the moment.
What kind of game do you look forward to?
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:08 pm (UTC)Which is bizarre for me, I realize, but my tastes as a role-player have changed.
Is it intentional that what the personae want from the knights isn't entirely set in stone, thus lending them independence? I'm really fascinated by your world building.
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:13 pm (UTC)Eventually I hope to be able to do something with this and knights and Choice that the players will enjoy :3c but yesss. The system is made to be that way for a reason.
What area/addition to the world map would you like to see most?
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:18 pm (UTC)Are you worried about running out of things to be unlocked? Or is that eventually meant to happen? OR AM I ASKING A QUESTION I CAN'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:22 pm (UTC)So, a herd of rampaging cannibal goats runs through Aather and mauls half the population. What do Riku and Suzaku do?
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:43 pm (UTC)Five things you want to do with Break?
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Date: 2011-02-22 05:47 pm (UTC)• top sugata moar
• secretly shank something for someone he cares about
• IDK EVERYTHING
• ""
I am very WHEE WHATEVER with my characters right now.
Is there anything Riku or Suzaku wishes for right now?
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Date: 2011-02-22 06:31 pm (UTC)Suzaku wants the personae to stop bringing in people who aren't interested in saving the world!
Do you ship anything in Aather?
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Date: 2011-02-22 06:50 pm (UTC)Like, I ship Sugata and Souya but not in a sexytiems way. I just enjoy it when Souya feels topped and tsundere.
On the same token I love Suzaku and Sei-chan's interactions and I guess it's more traditional ship in that sense but it isn't like I am sitting here rooting for sex either...
SO TELL ME ABOUT SUZAKU AND SEI-CHAN 8D
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Date: 2011-02-23 07:44 am (UTC)Which is where the other part comes in. Or one of the other parts. Mostly, Suzaku and Seishirou work so differently. Suzaku is self-righteous and dickish but inherently good. Seishirou is a giant bag of dicks, but he's ... not. They both have incredibly domineering personalities. As a result, Seishirou ends up putting Suzaku in his place, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. Suzaku is like the great wall of China when it comes to his stubbornness.
That said: He thinks it might be useful to try and track a pattern to Seishirou's thinking! (Hint: He'll never be able to.) And some part of him is so flustered and confused by Seishirou that he doesn't altogether get it. He wants to be right, but it's impossible to be right with someone who doesn't seem to care; that someone seems to like to let Suzaku think he's right, no matter what. It's frustrating! Because he wants to show he's actually right! Which is where an interesting balance of maturity comes into the mix.
But most of all, he just doesn't like him, but he finds him interesting—which is incredibly hypocritical and boy is he aware of it—because he thinks differently. But also, he is physically attracted to him! In a weird ... competitive way, where he doesn't like ending up on the receiving end of things. Some part of him enjoys the challenge and the minor slipping into flirting, because it's something where he thinks he can get an edge. (Hint: He never does.) It's just also ... incredibly unhealthy, because as much as he finds him fascinating, he also wants to hurt him. He's able to guess a portion of how dangerous Seishirou can be. He doesn't know entirely, though.
... I suspect he will, eventually.